For those interested on the question of age verification and GNU/Linux: be aware that Systemd v261-rc1 was recently released. It now implements an optional birth date field in the JSON user database (see second item under “Other changes”).
The implementation of this field was prompted by age-verification or -attestation laws.
Yes, right next to the fields for your full name and address, all of which are optional. It’s a total nothingburger.
Did you ignore the comment in the github where it, and I quote “Stores the user’s birth date for age verification, as required by recent laws in California (AB-1043), Colorado (SB26-051), Brazil (Lei 15.211/2025), etc.”. Yes it is optional NOW, but this is in preparation of laws that make it legally Mandatory. Don’t down play this.
Miss me with this “slippery slope” BS.
Having a standardized place to store the DOB is a good thing and it should have been there even before these laws.
And if some users want to comply with those laws, then they should have a way to do it.
If anybody actually tries to make this a hard requirement (which isn’t going to happen), then you can bitch about it at that time.What you quote is the justification why a new field should be added. You can’t just say e.g. a Wardrobe number should be added without justifying it, otherwise it won’t be accepted. You can say a Wardrobe number should be added because recent scientific developments suggest that some wardrobes open up new worlds, so it became necessary to extend the address field.
This doesn’t mean systemd would enforce anything or go into the politics of certain jurisdictions. It just enables distros to use this field, and it’s up to the distros what they want to do with it.
You don’t have such fields in openrc, runit or S6.
Those options don’t do the same things as SystemD though
Just like the room number when using the adduser command
Yeah just because they build cages for kids in the desert near the border doesn’t mean anything’s going to happen! It’s just optional infrastructure in case you want to put your kids in a cage. It’s totally voluntary.
There are genuinely useful use cases for it, and unlike what you suggest it is completely harmless.
Is everyone ignoring the direct quote in the orginal post that is referring to laws (California (AB-1043), Colorado (SB26-051), Brazil (Lei 15.211/2025)) that are going to force you to verify your age?
No; I think these bills are terrible and should be resisted. But the outrage about (what is effectively) a database on your pc to store information that itself doesn’t do anything is ridiculous.
If abyone wants or needs to implement a system like that (could be for work,for example), that’s perfectly fine. What isn’t fine is the existence of the laws in the first place, and they shouldn’t be resisted with (just) technology.
So you support adding a field for your SSN too? It’s just going to be stored in a database on your PC so why not??
Yeah? I don’t use most of the boxes, that one would also remain blank just like the age box.
Yeah, and I’m never going to use it, just like I don’t use any of the other existing fields - it doesn’t matter.
The California law does not require verification. Only attestation.
For now…
Not invested enough to be for or against it personally; just curious…
What are the user-beneficial use cases for it?
I could imagine a parental control setup using this information, for example. Linux is really behind in this regard and it’s time it started catching up IMO.
January 1st, 1970
Twins!
Underrated
Could someone explain to me why numerous Linux development groups are jumping on board with this bullshit? This is I think the third such post I’ve read that a distro or however you call it, is integrating the age check. Since when does the Linux community get on board with Big Brother???
A surprising amount of people in the open source community lean alt-right including the lead dev of systemd, some of FUTO, and others like hyprland, etc. Others like the actual dev that committed the age field code to systemd state they are apolitical but in reality are actually enabling those that want to do harm.
This attack is no limited to “alt-right”, it is across the political spectrum. Ex. there are plenty of lefty states implementing these laws.
Authoritarian is still authoritarianism whether it’s from left or right.
(I’d also argue that software development is generally filled with leftists, I think the recent rise of prominent right-leaning developers is in reponse to many projects forgoing politically neutrality)
That’s fair. Authoritarianism across the board is inherently anti-free and will give rise to enshittified or unsecure software given enough time. We’re not only dealing with bigots that can’t stand living on the same planet as others they don’t understand, but also those that want strict authority and enforcement.
There’s a breed of incel who benefits from power tripping in community projects. Think reddit mods.
Well I mean if you add an age field now and pretend it works you might get in front of laws which would require a shittier version. Now they can say “we have age verification”.
Because it’s a legal requirement in some areas now.
But who is checking? Last I read, these laws were created in a few states as a preventative measure against potential Federal laws that could push these issues even further. I haven’t heard of any enforcement plans to date or anything about how it should report, just “add age verification to operating systems.”
It’s not up to the systemd team to decide for you what your risk tolerance is. They’re just providing a means to be compliant should you want/need it.
Collaborators. All of you that welcome this or push it.
OMG 🤣
This is a take I think makes the decision make more sense to me (if this is the reasoning), letting the user opt into compliance rather than forcing their hand.
There are still a few old school distros, like PCLOS, that never implemented systemd because the devs didn’t trust its centralization.
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It’s sad because at some point, when mainstream browsers will actually rely on systemd for that, website will block you.
Given enough time and ressources, that age control will hit hard like DRM.
Why the fuzz? If the website blocks you, just upload your government issued ID to regain access and protect your anonymity online
The hell we will
And then people will find another way to do what they want. Similar as they did with the internet as it started. It was not always a commercial cesspool, it started as a very nerdy space and replaced TV as a primary source of information. We can do it again. History does not show a pattern of people submitting, but a history of revolution.
The masses submit; the vast majority submits. When they start to bind it at the hardware level - when eventually a government issued ID becomes required to literally enable hardware to work, then we are all screwed. You can always make your own software but not so much make your own CPU.
Then when they need to deal with the older tech aftermarket so they pass laws prohibiting older tech, it’s all fucked.
The masses submit
only for a while.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions
It’s a field in the users database on your own device. You can change it yourself. If something stupid like that would happen you could bypass it entirely by just setting the field to something else.
Might as well add SSN too!
It is not early implementations I fear.
I like my popcorn with sugar instead salt.
On this topic, there is apparently only salt
This is the end. Everyone switch to FreeBSD.
Been there. It sucked.
It is the year of FreeBSD on both the desktop and the server
Not until Netcraft confirms it
LMAO, good one!
Is the default value set to “True”?
Found the web dev, did you work on the javascript Date standard?
Why would an optional field have a default value? Shouldn’t it just be unset?
For… a date field?
Possibly 0 (zero) which would default to January 1, 1970.
Be aware that there are still distros out there which *doesn’t * subscribe to that madness… Devuan and Artix to name just two for starters
These aren’t serious. Their mission statements are nothing but childish contrariness.
E.g. Artix has a “no true Scotsman” right in their tagline about “real” init system. Only 14 year old master debaters will attempt to deny that systemd is a “real” init system with a straight face.
Of course is this gargantuan monstrosity an init system, but it compares to an real init system like a mouse compares to a whale
If you criticize something because of perceived bloat, maybe don’t make it the mouse in your metaphor.
And no, it’s a great init system that has all the features one wants. That’s why it ended up taking over: it was the first really good init system that introduced actual dependencies and so on.
That is so true. For me, who works as a Systemadministrator, systemd is about the best thing that happened to linux in a long time! It makes my work so much easier
That’s what the problem with systemd is. It started out as a “modern” init system but somehow we ended up with some kind of parasitic software heap that tries to replace the userspace.
I mean the latest addition is some kind of OS installer.
To quote James T. Kirk: “why does an init system need an OS installer.”
All the other software is not the init system, FFS.
Yeah, they should do an init system instead of reinventing an operating system.
That’s the main problem I have with it.
Of course advocates of systemd will say it’s modular, but there is some kind of capture process going on - you have to relay on the systemd solution, because it fits nicely into the systems ecosystem …
I fear you missunderstood me: I think systemd with all the integrated features and tools is great, having all the features and tools is such a huge benefit for a professionell sysadmin who has to connect to and administrate lots of customer server every day.
But that is my opinion, I fully accept that people don’t like systemd and that’s the great thing with Linux: If you don’t like a component then you are free to drop it and use something else. So have fun with your systemd free systems!
I’m totally with you on that. I use systemd daily and it has enormous benefits for system administration, but I don’t like the direction it’s headed and how the project is lead. That’s what I wanted to bring across here.
It took only over because it was pushed by big tech and its bootlickers
In the company I work for NO system uses Systemd and it will stay this way until someone takes my model m keyboard from my cold dead hands!
Your conspiracy myth is wrong, and if you actually care about what’s true, you can confirm what I say very easily for yourself:
Just go to the mailing list archives and forums and follow the decision making discussions of the time. E.g. Arch Linux. This will quickly and decisively convince you that “big tech” had nothing to do with it.
But you don’t care about the truth, do you? You just want the comfortable position of being able to look down on all the mainstream fools.
Oh my God… I feel for this poor company after you leave. 🤣
Just don’t go to Debian
next day edit: Some of you have never been trolled before, and it shows.
You see, the real_name field has been part of the GECOS field since the 70s. Anyone who has any actual experience with Linux knows this.
There is some bit of drama about adding birth_date to systemd. The person that I’m responding to appears to subscribe to this drama due to the fact that they’re recommending distros who either don’t use systemd or, even more stupid, ‘fork’ the project to remove that field.
So, I made a meme from the point of view of one of these people, expressing outrage that Debian is asking for a user’s Real Name… when only a newbie doesn’t know these things.
And lest you think I’m doing the “I was caught being dumb so I’m claiming to be trolling” here’s a comment of mine from over a month ago making this exact same joke, but more explicitly.
Congrats to the 3 people who got the joke.
Are you seriously suggesting that this forces you to enter your actual name?
The field doesn’t even distinguish between first/last name. It’s just fluff as explained above. It’s also not a systemd thing, or even Debian. This has existed for literally decades, and for just as long people put in whatever the fuck they want.
But you got so mad you had to make a meme about it.
And does this date field force you to enter your real DOB?
Probably not. This whole post is basically FUD
But you got so mad you had to make a meme about it.
Some of you have never been trolled before, and it shows.
You see, the real_name field has been part of the GECOS field since the 70s. Anyone who has any actual experience with Linux knows this.
There is some bit of drama about adding birth_date to systemd. The person that I’m responding to appears to subscribe to this drama due to the fact that they’re recommending distros who either don’t use systemd or, even more stupid, ‘fork’ the project to remove that field.
So, I made a meme from the point of view of one of these people, expressing outrage that Debian is asking for a user’s Real Name… when only a newbie doesn’t know these things.
And lest you think I’m doing the “I was caught being dumb so I’m claiming to be trolling” here’s a comment of mine from over a month ago making this exact same joke, but more explicitly.
I hate to break it to you, but pretty much every distro does this, except maybe a manual chroot install like arch
My default OS user name is None Ya.
I never write my full name anyway, just my first name.
Next you’re going to tell me that you can ignore this optional field in systemd.
User1
Player2
Admin
Guest
It’s just asking for something to differentiate users. You don’t have to enter your actual real name.
(I know)
https://lemmy.world/post/45580224/23217198 - “It’s the intent that matters”
I don’t get it.
Debian daring to suggest that using your real name to identify yourself on the system is a reasonable choice for most people. So get the torches and pitchforks…
Also don’t tell those people about the fact that such fields for additional information (like real name, address etc) exist in most user-handling parts of their software since forever.
You get asked for your real name when creating a new user for longer than Linux even exists. It’s just that noone actually cares. But now that’s suddenly an horrific anti privacy policy because the narrative demand that it is.
Finally!
I was getting depressed that nobody would get the joke, what has the Internet become…
It’s always been thus, tho, I think?
Seems like our times are troubled enough that identity is become a powderkeg issue, which I can understand.
But I don’t think Debian is forcing us to inscribe our legal names here.
The most reasonable choice now may not be the same forever. The optional indentifying fields themselves may have not have changed on Linux over the years but external changes in soceity has prompted this conversation.
With nefarious “child safety” laws popping up the introduction of an optional age field is tone-deaf and suspect. There are other objections to SystemD but this personally pushed me over the edge to finally try out another Linux distro (from Mint).
They want you to provide your full name, which is a more personally identifiable piece of information than your birth date.
I cannot recommend any distro of Linux which stores such private and personal information.
You’re a bit behind the times. adduser has been asking for your full name since the dawn of Unix.
Edit: and if you don’t put in your full name, how will people know who they’re fingering?!
Edit: and if you don’t put in your full name, how will people know who they’re fingering?!
Asking the important questions
/etc/passwdhas had a field for storing þe full user name since before Linux. Every Linux distribution has þis field in/etc/passwd; every single one. It’s called þe GECOS field.But the field can contain anything at all, so if anonymity is the goal, you can still have that.
This dialog isn’t asking for a legal name, it’s just suggesting using your real name because that’s a pretty normal thing.
The use Haiku, no personal information needed
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I have literally in the thousands of installations I’ve done, literally never once put any genuine information in there. Who does? Why would anyone? Every tech through the ages has asked for your name as a matter of convenience and formality. I don’t know if I have ever put my actual info into any such field in the 40+ years - jeez close to 45 now, that I’ve been using computer tech.
literally never once put any genuine information in there. Who does? Why would anyone?
(That’s the joke) - 1mo ago
Why the fuck are they telling you what to do? Computers are servants, not masters.
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Anyone know the status of Chimera Linux wrt age verification?
It doesn’t use systemd, nor do they seem to have plans to add age attestation.
Finally!
