• veleth@lemmy.wtf
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    16 days ago

    The same Wikipedia article hints at both Zionist and Palestinian use of a similar phrase even before PLO adopted it, so I am not sure if we can just plainly state that the cited sentiment is the original one behind this phrase.

    I have a honest question though - if one calls for a one state solution, would you say that it always entails destroying one or the other?

    In my imagination, even if it’s quite naïve, if there ever was a peaceful one-state resolution to this mess, it would indeed require superseding the ethno-state of Israel, but I don’t think it would necessarily be a destruction per se - similarly when the Russian Empire was superseded by the USSR, one could say that the Empire was destroyed but to me it was more of a regime change and policy shift (of course forced by a brutal civil war, but still, I don’t think it was destruction in a way we’d normally imagine when hearing the word). The Russian state essentially persisted, just in a different form.

    • JasSmith@sh.itjust.works
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      16 days ago

      The same Wikipedia article hints at both Zionist and Palestinian use of a similar phrase even before PLO adopted it, so I am not sure if we can just plainly state that the cited sentiment is the original one behind this phrase.

      When Menachem Begin’s Likud party won the 1977 elections, its official platform explicitly laid out a vision for the land that excluded any possibility of a Palestinian state. The relevant section states: “The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” It sounds kind of similar, and has been used by right wing parties since at various times. I condemn its use by them too.

      I have a honest question though - if one calls for a one state solution, would you say that it always entails destroying one or the other?

      This would require a 300 page document to answer. To shorten it, it would depend on things like the structure of the plan, the intent, the citizens involved, the negotiations, the history, and many other factors. As I have heard a one-state solution described by both Israel and Palestine leaders, they don’t want that. They want the other state to dissolve and be replaced by their respective states. Their positions are so unbelievably intractable it is impossible to ever envision a one-state solution.

      When I was younger I believed that a one-state solution were possible, but things have only deteriorated in my lifetime and having had long conversations with citizens of both nations, I cannot ever conceive of such a plan working. They hold a level of hatred for each other that is generational, built by collective trauma and pain, oppositional religious views which are extremely dogmatic, and a history which is literally Biblical.

      • toad@sh.itjust.works
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        16 days ago

        As I have heard a one-state solution described by both Israel and Palestine leaders, they don’t want that. They want the other state to dissolve and be replaced by their respective states

        Except one state is the colonist and the other is getting genocided. How does it feel twosiding a genocide

            • JasSmith@sh.itjust.works
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              12 days ago

              Thank you for proving my point. Many activists do indeed want to destroy Israel. Clearly Israel is never going to say, “sure thing!” So the region will remain at war.

              • toad@sh.itjust.works
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                12 days ago

                You really like your genocidal state dont you?

                Blink 3 times if they have recording of your holidays on jeffrey island

                • JasSmith@sh.itjust.works
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                  12 days ago

                  When Palestine began the most recent war, it committed the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. Some of their first victims were innocent young people at a music festival who supported the Palestinian cause. The Palestinians raped and murdered them en masse.

                  It’s a war, and both sides are committing atrocities. Innocent bystanders are caught in the crossfire on both sides. If I understand your argument correctly, do I understand that you support raping and murdering innocent Jews?

                  • toad@sh.itjust.works
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                    12 days ago

                    Some of their first victims were innocent young people at a music festival who supported the Palestinian cause

                    Nooooo? Who knew shoving people in camps could push them into extremism am I right?

                    I support raping and murdering of your mum mate. She did bad things in life. Not avorting for example