• Troy@lemmy.ca
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    4 days ago

    Countries and borders are an arbitrary concept created during the peace treaty of Westphalia.

    Those relics belong to dead people.

    • iegod@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      I think I get the gist of what you’re saying but they’re very much not arbitrary. They’re a direct manifestation of a state’s ability to exert control.

      • Troy@lemmy.ca
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        3 days ago

        We agree entirely.

        Without the ability to exert control and therefore reinforce the definition, borders are as arbitrary as any other law. They are created by people, enforced by people, and if we change our mind then they can go away. It’s not some intrinsic property of the planet.

        While I’m ranting, the definition of a relic or artifact is equally arbitrary. As well as the definition of a people. And ownership. At any point in history, these definitions will be different. Right now we’ve defined it in such a way that we’ve decided that it is socially acceptable to return relics to people who live inside geographic areas where the relics originated from. This is also arbitrary.

        But as long as people, decide to exert force to reinforce this definitions, there is true as any other law.

      • Troy@lemmy.ca
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        3 days ago

        When I was in grad school, the philosophy of science students would egg me on with things like: “I’ll buy you a beer if you can prove the electron is real”. I’d like to think I’m carrying on their tradition in science memes.

    • TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      4 days ago

      Attributing modern concepts of borders to Westphalia is a Eurocentric worldview. What, you don’t think they had the concept of statehood and sovereignty in Asia for at least a few thousand years prior to this?

    • pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe
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      3 days ago

      Those relics belong to dead people.

      No, it belongs to a community. Does something stop belonging to a people if the original creators die? No.

      That way nobody owns any land, because it belongs to the amoeba.

      Returning the artifacts is meant to be a good will gesture, and a sort of a reparation (in lieu of the actual reparations) for all the horrible colonial era crimes that were propagated not more than even 100 years ago.