Do you judge people driving clean, scuff free vans as well or only truck drivers?
I use my truck for work but other than having a roof rack you probably wouldn’t be able to tell it’s a work truck from the outside. When it gets dirty, I wash it, and when it gets dents or scratches I fix them. I don’t want it to look like a beater.
A 4x4 truck with its big wheels and high ground clearance are features that allow the truck to move off-road. These features have the unfortunate side effect of making them dangerous to other road users, and very uneconomical / environmentally unfriendly. They also take up a lot of space.
Work vans and most cars are capable of driving on a building site or track.
Hood height, engine size, and the physical exterior dimensions of many vans are similar to those of pickup trucks. When used for work, it often just comes down to personal preference. One key difference is towing capacity - most vans are limited to around 750 kg, whereas trucks typically offer much more. Mine can tow up to 3000 kg.
Edit: Also, rear visibility in a van is much worse due to the enclosed cargo area. With a truck, you pretty much have 360-degree visibility.
Ford makes (or at least made) and E-350 van. It can tow anything your truck can. And seat 11 people. And keep your equipment secured and safe from the elements. And it has a backup camera.
most vans are limited to around 750 kg, whereas trucks typically offer much more. Mine can tow up to 3000 kg.
Yeah that’s bullshit. Vans that can do the max of 3500kg are common as fuck. You probably looked at the wrong spec. 750kg is the max for a trailer without brakes, regardless of type of car. There are usually two numbers on the spec sheet, one for max towing weight for unbraked trailers and one for braked trailers.
True, my bad. Many of the most commonly used vans here can tow 2500kg as long as the trailer has brakes. Anything more than that is rare though. Even many of the other mid-size pickups can’t tow 3000kg.
It may depend on local laws. Here the total weight of the combination (car + trailer) with a B+E driving license is 7000Kg, and 3500Kg for a car. That means you can have a van with 3500Kg capacity plus a 3500Kg trailer. So naturally there are vans that are built to match the max spec.
But the front/hood is much shorter in length. Also, people driving that type of van are much more likely to be doing so in a professional capacity and are significantly less likely to be asshole drivers fucking around with their phone while driving. People are bad drivers at baseline quite frequently, but if someone is on the job in a van used for commercial purposes, they’re more likely to at least be paying attention and not speeding everywhere.
Edit: I marked up your image to illustrate the point made much more eloquently in the video. Because of the length of the hood, the truck has a much longer distance of road obstructed from view in front of it, and this is with a standard truck that doesn’t have one of the very popular lift kits (and assuming that the driver is relatively tall.)
If there’s a 70 cm tall child standing in front of the vehicle, then in either case the child either would or wouldn’t be visible - there’s effectively no difference. It doesn’t really matter whether you can see 2 or 3 meters more of the road surface from one vehicle or the other. In both cases, the hood height is the same, and that’s what determines the safety in the event of a pedestrian collision.
Also, with a van, the rear visibility is greatly reduced compared to a pickup. You could say that can be compensated for with cameras - but that same argument applies to the front visibility as well.
Let’s also keep in mind where this discussion started from: a commenter was taking issue with clean, scuff-free pickups as if a work truck couldn’t look like that.
Yeah Sorry, I should have said I’m not American. I’m Dutch. I’ve been to the USA and these things “fit” better in a car-centric society. At least there is room.
But even there I still question it’s usefulness, you cannot see right in front of you. You’d miss wheelchairs, children, etc. And van’s can usually carry more the the flatbed of a truck.
I’m not American either - I’m from Finland. I’ve been to the Netherlands, and I can’t quite imagine owning a truck there either.
However, your criticism was about clean, scuff-free trucks broadly. If you had said that you judge people for owning a truck when they have no practical need for one, I wouldn’t have any issue with that. But that’s not what you said.
I don’t own one of those gigantic American trucks, but a mid-size one - think Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Mitsubishi L200, Nissan Navara, or Isuzu D-Max. The external dimensions and hood height on those are comparable to similarly sized work vans. So when someone needs a vehicle capable of hauling cargo, it’s basically a choice between a truck and a van - and there’s not much difference between the two in terms of pedestrian safety.
I’d even argue a truck might be safer, because you generally have better all-around visibility. Vans tend to have very limited rear visibility due to the enclosed cargo area. You could argue that a van is more convenient for hauling certain types of cargo, but that’s a separate discussion about practicality - not safety.
Well I agree. My first reaction was a bit tongue-in-cheek. On purpose to conjure a very specific image; A person owning a huge monster truck without the intention of using it for it’s intended purpose but for propping up one’s ego.
Or these:
p.s. Vans have camera’s these days, allowing you to even see the ground underneath your fender. So even better then you could ever get with just your mirror’s.
Do you judge people driving clean, scuff free vans as well or only truck drivers?
I use my truck for work but other than having a roof rack you probably wouldn’t be able to tell it’s a work truck from the outside. When it gets dirty, I wash it, and when it gets dents or scratches I fix them. I don’t want it to look like a beater.
A 4x4 truck with its big wheels and high ground clearance are features that allow the truck to move off-road. These features have the unfortunate side effect of making them dangerous to other road users, and very uneconomical / environmentally unfriendly. They also take up a lot of space.
Work vans and most cars are capable of driving on a building site or track.
Hood height, engine size, and the physical exterior dimensions of many vans are similar to those of pickup trucks. When used for work, it often just comes down to personal preference. One key difference is towing capacity - most vans are limited to around 750 kg, whereas trucks typically offer much more. Mine can tow up to 3000 kg.
Edit: Also, rear visibility in a van is much worse due to the enclosed cargo area. With a truck, you pretty much have 360-degree visibility.
Ford makes (or at least made) and E-350 van. It can tow anything your truck can. And seat 11 people. And keep your equipment secured and safe from the elements. And it has a backup camera.
What’s your point? That thing is bigger than my pickup.
The point is that both of your points are factually incorrect.
Which points exactly?
Nah, you can read it again.
Yeah that’s bullshit. Vans that can do the max of 3500kg are common as fuck. You probably looked at the wrong spec. 750kg is the max for a trailer without brakes, regardless of type of car. There are usually two numbers on the spec sheet, one for max towing weight for unbraked trailers and one for braked trailers.
True, my bad. Many of the most commonly used vans here can tow 2500kg as long as the trailer has brakes. Anything more than that is rare though. Even many of the other mid-size pickups can’t tow 3000kg.
It may depend on local laws. Here the total weight of the combination (car + trailer) with a B+E driving license is 7000Kg, and 3500Kg for a car. That means you can have a van with 3500Kg capacity plus a 3500Kg trailer. So naturally there are vans that are built to match the max spec.
Here’s a great video by Fort Nine that explains how and why the shape and size of these trucks are a threat to everyone outside the vehicle.
This applies to vans just as well though. This Ford Transit is little over a meter longer than a Toyota Hilux so these pictures are roughly to scale.
But the front/hood is much shorter in length. Also, people driving that type of van are much more likely to be doing so in a professional capacity and are significantly less likely to be asshole drivers fucking around with their phone while driving. People are bad drivers at baseline quite frequently, but if someone is on the job in a van used for commercial purposes, they’re more likely to at least be paying attention and not speeding everywhere.
Edit: I marked up your image to illustrate the point made much more eloquently in the video. Because of the length of the hood, the truck has a much longer distance of road obstructed from view in front of it, and this is with a standard truck that doesn’t have one of the very popular lift kits (and assuming that the driver is relatively tall.)
If there’s a 70 cm tall child standing in front of the vehicle, then in either case the child either would or wouldn’t be visible - there’s effectively no difference. It doesn’t really matter whether you can see 2 or 3 meters more of the road surface from one vehicle or the other. In both cases, the hood height is the same, and that’s what determines the safety in the event of a pedestrian collision.
Also, with a van, the rear visibility is greatly reduced compared to a pickup. You could say that can be compensated for with cameras - but that same argument applies to the front visibility as well.
Let’s also keep in mind where this discussion started from: a commenter was taking issue with clean, scuff-free pickups as if a work truck couldn’t look like that.
Yeah Sorry, I should have said I’m not American. I’m Dutch. I’ve been to the USA and these things “fit” better in a car-centric society. At least there is room.
But even there I still question it’s usefulness, you cannot see right in front of you. You’d miss wheelchairs, children, etc. And van’s can usually carry more the the flatbed of a truck.
I’m not American either - I’m from Finland. I’ve been to the Netherlands, and I can’t quite imagine owning a truck there either.
However, your criticism was about clean, scuff-free trucks broadly. If you had said that you judge people for owning a truck when they have no practical need for one, I wouldn’t have any issue with that. But that’s not what you said.
I don’t own one of those gigantic American trucks, but a mid-size one - think Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Mitsubishi L200, Nissan Navara, or Isuzu D-Max. The external dimensions and hood height on those are comparable to similarly sized work vans. So when someone needs a vehicle capable of hauling cargo, it’s basically a choice between a truck and a van - and there’s not much difference between the two in terms of pedestrian safety.
I’d even argue a truck might be safer, because you generally have better all-around visibility. Vans tend to have very limited rear visibility due to the enclosed cargo area. You could argue that a van is more convenient for hauling certain types of cargo, but that’s a separate discussion about practicality - not safety.
Well I agree. My first reaction was a bit tongue-in-cheek. On purpose to conjure a very specific image; A person owning a huge monster truck without the intention of using it for it’s intended purpose but for propping up one’s ego.
A Toyoto Hilux is not something I would consider. More along the lines of: https://www.hotcars.com/the-sickest-lifted-trucks-weve-seen-in-2020/
Or these:
p.s. Vans have camera’s these days, allowing you to even see the ground underneath your fender. So even better then you could ever get with just your mirror’s.