the theocratic authoritarian government of Iran is looking like the good guys
It’s almost as though Americans have been brainwashed to believe brown people with the wrong religion are inherently evil. And, as a consequence, they find themselves on the side of a genocidal regime that venerates child murder.
The Iranian government is a bunch of evil assholes, just like the Israeli and US governments. This is a case where the “both sides are equal” is true. It’s not long ago that the Iranian government murdered thousands of their citizens and they have been oppressing their people for decades. It’s just that they have been attacked by equally evil cunts.
The Iranian government is a bunch of evil assholes, just like the Israeli and US governments.
The need to paint everything in broad brush “Good v Evil” is what legitimizes these wars to begin with. The idea that you’re doing anyone a favor by bombing them should be ridiculous on its face. But we consistently build up this narrative of the Just War, we declare everyone we don’t like is Hitler, and then we throw more and more of the planet into the “Hitler” bucket when they aren’t along for the ride once the bombs land.
It’s just that they have been attacked by equally evil cunts.
When you kill off all the nice guys, what you’re left with are the assholes. The Iranian government is the end result of this multi-generational culling process. The American and Israeli governments are, too.
Oh, please. That’s nitpicking bullshit. Nobody is trying to downplay the pure evil the US have brought to the world for decades. But acting as if the Iranian regime isn’t as bad just because they don’t tallied the same numbers is idiotic. I’d argue it’s simply a lack of opportunity. All of those fuckers would make the world instantly better by dropping dead. That includes the governments in the US, Israel, Iran, Russia and China at the very least, plus a load of billionaires.
If it’s just a numbers game, then the US has saved orders of magnitude more people than they’ve killed. Hell, even if you just look at the Bush administration, PEPFAR alone saved more than 26 million people, while the Iraq war killed one million at most.
I mean if this is only about outcome and not about intent, the US has historically provided about 1/3 of the Earth’s foreign aid. You could discount that by saying that the US, being so wealthy, was more capable of doing that. But that’s not the outcome-oriented viewpoint that we’re taking.
We could look at the moral philosophy of the leaders and political systems at play here, but that would be “ignoring the reality”, so let’s just get out the sparklers and don our American flag shorts, because your by-the-numbers approach has a clear winner! USA! USA! USA!
Not my logic. You’re the one who wanted to simplify it to body counts. Is adding good deeds also too much nuance for you? All morality is judged on bad deeds alone? Wow that’s even more simplistic.
Thats mostly due to lack of ability, not lack of desire. Do you think that if the socioeconomic positions were reversed, the current Iranian regime would have been any better than the US, or Israel?
You can quibble about death toll amounts and functional ability… but that doesn’t change desire.
I do believe thinking in “equal to” terms needlessly belittles the death and destruction perpetrated by these tools… but only as much as quantifying them at all. These people are sick, twisted megalomaniacal dickbags who should be brought low. Sadly that only seems to happen at the whims of other sick, twisted megalomaniacal dickbags.
The best we can do is try and wedge ourselves into the cracks to push them all out of power while trying to stave off the opportunists who try and do the same.
And not bicker amongst ourselves about the level of evilness to quantify each by.
I have a desire to kill billionaires. Does that matter? Should I be tried for murder? No, because I’m not actually going to kill anyone.
Putting violent desire on the same moral plane as actual murder victims is a silly thing to do.
Do you think that if the socioeconomic positions were reversed, the current Iranian regime would have been any better than the US, or Israel?
In this hypothetical the details really matter, but in general I think no, the current Iranian regime would not be better.
I think a better hypothetical would be that, if the US never did a coup in Iran and overthrow their democratically elected government, and the socioeconomic positions were reversed, would Iran be better then? I think yes.
Putting violent desire on the same moral plane as actual murder victims is a silly thing to do.
Agreed, but what if not stopping the IRGC ends up causing orders-of-magnitude more suffering and deaths? (Tho, is Trump actually unleashing the IRGC because Mojtaba gives them free-er reign than Ali; and causing some Iranians to actually side with their own psychotic countrymen against the attacking foreigners? If yes, then US voters may be more harmful than Iran.)
Would Hamas not be vastly worse than Israel if they had the same military power as Israel?
ISIS?
Shouldn’t intent count to prevent access to biological and nuclear weapons?
what if not stopping the IRGC ends up causing orders-of-magnitude more suffering and deaths?
This is the logic of preemptive war, and it is blatantly illegal under the UN charter. This type of logic is very dangerous because it can justify any war without evidence.
Would Hamas not be vastly worse than Israel if they had the same military power as Israel? ISIS?
How could they possibly be worse than Israel, who is invading it’s neighbors, starting wars for territory, doing ethnic cleansing, and threatening to drop nukes?
I agree that I do not want to see a Hamas government, and an ISIS government would be horrific, but history shows these type of groups form as a direct result of imperial violence.
Israel funded Hamas and killed it’s more moderate competitors. Hamas’ early leaders like Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi were scholars and academics, serious people interested in peace. Israel killed them and their families, and their successors, over and over until you end up with a violent, uneducated leader like Yahya Sinwar.
The US acted similarly when we meddled in the Syrian civil war, giving weapons and money to ISIS.
Shouldn’t intent count to prevent access to biological and nuclear weapons?
I don’t know how this would work at all. How do you measure intent? Does the US have good intent with its nuclear arsenal? Russia? Pakistan?
I think your question has 2 logical conclusions:
There is no possible ‘good intent’ for nuclear weapons, they are horrible devices made to kill millions of people.
The intent of nuclear programs is not offensive, but defensive. Recent history shows that nuclear powers live in relative peace, whereas non-nuclear powers get invaded and bullied. Look at what happened to Ukraine after they gave up their nukes.
It seems like u are forgetting Iran finances a lot of Islamistic terror groups like Hisbollah, Hamas, Huthi, etc. that cause unrest in the whole region.
I’m not forgetting that at all. I have critical support for Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Huthis in their struggle for freedom and territorial integrity against genocidal Israel.
It is Israel’s invasions and apartheid that causes unrest in the whole region.
America has funded more terror groups in the region than Iran has.
And in terms of numbers of dead, the number of people killed by Iran’s proxies is just another rounding error.
This is a case where the “both sides are equal” is true.
Absolutely not. The Iranian regime has a lot of blood on its hands, both at home and abroad, but it doesn’t even come close to the sheer amount of evil exercised by Israel and America. The worst thing the Ayatollah regime has ever done was support the Assad regime during the Syrian Civil War. That’s obviously evil as fuck, but it looks downright cute compared to Israel’s literal genocide and America’s War on Terror (let alone its even worse historical crimes). In this class of absurd evil, killing a few thousand people is literally a rounding error.
Like I said, compared to the sheer scale of horror inflicted by these countries’ foreign policy, a few thousand dead protesters is a rounding error. What domestic evil committed by any of these countries compares to this?
It’s almost as though Americans have been brainwashed to believe brown people with the wrong religion are inherently evil. And, as a consequence, they find themselves on the side of a genocidal regime that venerates child murder.
The Iranian government is a bunch of evil assholes, just like the Israeli and US governments. This is a case where the “both sides are equal” is true. It’s not long ago that the Iranian government murdered thousands of their citizens and they have been oppressing their people for decades. It’s just that they have been attacked by equally evil cunts.
Yeah they even killed 30000 people according to the folks that bombed them 2 weeks later.
How dumb can you be lmao
The need to paint everything in broad brush “Good v Evil” is what legitimizes these wars to begin with. The idea that you’re doing anyone a favor by bombing them should be ridiculous on its face. But we consistently build up this narrative of the Just War, we declare everyone we don’t like is Hitler, and then we throw more and more of the planet into the “Hitler” bucket when they aren’t along for the ride once the bombs land.
When you kill off all the nice guys, what you’re left with are the assholes. The Iranian government is the end result of this multi-generational culling process. The American and Israeli governments are, too.
Obviously they’re both evil, but calling them “equal” feels like hegemonic propaganda. What makes them equal?
Over the years, Iran has murdered 10s of thousands of people. Over the decades, a good estimate is in the hundreds of thousands of people murdered.
For the American and Israeli death tolls, you’re going to have to add two zeroes to those numbers.
The Iranian murders are a rounding error when compared to the death America has been exporting for decades.
Oh, please. That’s nitpicking bullshit. Nobody is trying to downplay the pure evil the US have brought to the world for decades. But acting as if the Iranian regime isn’t as bad just because they don’t tallied the same numbers is idiotic. I’d argue it’s simply a lack of opportunity. All of those fuckers would make the world instantly better by dropping dead. That includes the governments in the US, Israel, Iran, Russia and China at the very least, plus a load of billionaires.
I don’t think it’s nitpicking at all. There is a serious difference between thousands of dead and millions of dead.
Anyone who ignores that reality is downplaying the evil that the US has wrought.
If it’s just a numbers game, then the US has saved orders of magnitude more people than they’ve killed. Hell, even if you just look at the Bush administration, PEPFAR alone saved more than 26 million people, while the Iraq war killed one million at most.
I mean if this is only about outcome and not about intent, the US has historically provided about 1/3 of the Earth’s foreign aid. You could discount that by saying that the US, being so wealthy, was more capable of doing that. But that’s not the outcome-oriented viewpoint that we’re taking.
We could look at the moral philosophy of the leaders and political systems at play here, but that would be “ignoring the reality”, so let’s just get out the sparklers and don our American flag shorts, because your by-the-numbers approach has a clear winner! USA! USA! USA!
Give 1 child a vaccine.
Shoot 1 child in the head.
Under your logic, these two are equal, and cancel each other out.
US imperialism is a disease, please get well soon.
Not my logic. You’re the one who wanted to simplify it to body counts. Is adding good deeds also too much nuance for you? All morality is judged on bad deeds alone? Wow that’s even more simplistic.
Thats mostly due to lack of ability, not lack of desire. Do you think that if the socioeconomic positions were reversed, the current Iranian regime would have been any better than the US, or Israel?
You can quibble about death toll amounts and functional ability… but that doesn’t change desire.
I do believe thinking in “equal to” terms needlessly belittles the death and destruction perpetrated by these tools… but only as much as quantifying them at all. These people are sick, twisted megalomaniacal dickbags who should be brought low. Sadly that only seems to happen at the whims of other sick, twisted megalomaniacal dickbags.
The best we can do is try and wedge ourselves into the cracks to push them all out of power while trying to stave off the opportunists who try and do the same.
And not bicker amongst ourselves about the level of evilness to quantify each by.
Why does desire matter?
I have a desire to kill billionaires. Does that matter? Should I be tried for murder? No, because I’m not actually going to kill anyone.
Putting violent desire on the same moral plane as actual murder victims is a silly thing to do.
In this hypothetical the details really matter, but in general I think no, the current Iranian regime would not be better.
I think a better hypothetical would be that, if the US never did a coup in Iran and overthrow their democratically elected government, and the socioeconomic positions were reversed, would Iran be better then? I think yes.
Agreed, but what if not stopping the IRGC ends up causing orders-of-magnitude more suffering and deaths? (Tho, is Trump actually unleashing the IRGC because Mojtaba gives them free-er reign than Ali; and causing some Iranians to actually side with their own psychotic countrymen against the attacking foreigners? If yes, then US voters may be more harmful than Iran.)
Would Hamas not be vastly worse than Israel if they had the same military power as Israel?
ISIS?
Shouldn’t intent count to prevent access to biological and nuclear weapons?
This is the logic of preemptive war, and it is blatantly illegal under the UN charter. This type of logic is very dangerous because it can justify any war without evidence.
How could they possibly be worse than Israel, who is invading it’s neighbors, starting wars for territory, doing ethnic cleansing, and threatening to drop nukes?
I agree that I do not want to see a Hamas government, and an ISIS government would be horrific, but history shows these type of groups form as a direct result of imperial violence.
Israel funded Hamas and killed it’s more moderate competitors. Hamas’ early leaders like Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi were scholars and academics, serious people interested in peace. Israel killed them and their families, and their successors, over and over until you end up with a violent, uneducated leader like Yahya Sinwar.
The US acted similarly when we meddled in the Syrian civil war, giving weapons and money to ISIS.
I don’t know how this would work at all. How do you measure intent? Does the US have good intent with its nuclear arsenal? Russia? Pakistan?
I think your question has 2 logical conclusions:
hey someone gets it
It seems like u are forgetting Iran finances a lot of Islamistic terror groups like Hisbollah, Hamas, Huthi, etc. that cause unrest in the whole region.
I’m not forgetting that at all. I have critical support for Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Huthis in their struggle for freedom and territorial integrity against genocidal Israel.
It is Israel’s invasions and apartheid that causes unrest in the whole region.
America has funded more terror groups in the region than Iran has.
And in terms of numbers of dead, the number of people killed by Iran’s proxies is just another rounding error.
Absolutely not. The Iranian regime has a lot of blood on its hands, both at home and abroad, but it doesn’t even come close to the sheer amount of evil exercised by Israel and America. The worst thing the Ayatollah regime has ever done was support the Assad regime during the Syrian Civil War. That’s obviously evil as fuck, but it looks downright cute compared to Israel’s literal genocide and America’s War on Terror (let alone its even worse historical crimes). In this class of absurd evil, killing a few thousand people is literally a rounding error.
Im assuming youre not counting domestic evils, then.
Like I said, compared to the sheer scale of horror inflicted by these countries’ foreign policy, a few thousand dead protesters is a rounding error. What domestic evil committed by any of these countries compares to this?