That one has basically no other associations in the western world and I’m not a hindu, so I don’t have a reason to. But pagan traditions, symbolism and mythology are a different matter. If you wish to label all of those as nazism, only the nazis will thank you for it.
Can you quote where I labelled them all the above as nazism please. You seem to have spent this entire conversation trying to put words in my mouth.
In fact, can you also quote where I said we need to throw out everything the nazis ever tried to claim while we’re here too please. I feel like you made that one up as well.
Your original response was “All of the above tbh.” to a list of critiques of the photoshoot. If you think that posing for a viking picture is too close to nazi symbolism, then why do you think that? I can’t see anything that would directly associate the picture with the german nazi party, or fascism in general.
The only explanation I could figure was that you think the nazi appropriation of the general aesthetic taints the whole concept of vikings with the nazi label. If my assesment is incorrect, then I do apologize. It’s just that that specific line of thinking is sadly somewhat common and is the core of a wider phenomenon of surrendering the symbols and aesthetics of many pre-christian traditions (particularly in northern Europe) to the nazis.
As I never said that nazis and viking were interchangeable terms, I’m going to to ahead and presume that means “no, I can’t quote where you said we have to discard every single thing the nazis claimed. However, rather than admitting that I made it up, I’m going to double down on the lie.” Good for you. Enjoy your cheap rhetorical devices, used for Internet points. My mistake for engaging someone like you in good faith. I’ve learned my lesson. Some people in Norway themselves also think its close to nazi symptoms. I said, it a little bit of a little too close. But hey, let’s not let what I actually said get in the way of things.
If you want to debate semantics, I’ll say that what’s there to admit? I never made any claims about what it is you’re saying, other than that one citation of your original response. The closest was when I said that “If you wish to label all of those as nazism, only the nazis will thank you for it.”. I didn’t claim that you do, but if you do, then only the nazis will thank you for it.
What I did do was take what I perceived to be the reasoning behind your comment (this picture of people posing as vikings is too close to nazi symbolism, so the concept and aesthetics of vikings is too close to nazi symbolism, presumably due to the far-rights attempts to appropriate said aesthetics) and apply it in a wider context in an attempt to demonstrate why I have my issues with it. If the vikings are too close to nazi symbolism, then what else is? You didn’t explain your reasoning, so I had to make some assumptions based on what I see around me in the world. We have plenty of neonazis here in Finland trying to appropriate ancient symbols for themselves, and we’re having similar discussions about that here every now and then. Countries (even smaller ones) aren’t hiveminds and you will find most opinions represented within them.
If you think that symbols shouldn’t be surrendered to the nazis, then why take issue with this image where the viking aesthetic is being used outside of fascistic ideology? It only serves to diminish that association. And the fact that you do take issue with this, means that you don’t want to see symbols which you consider to be too close to nazi symbolism to be used by those who don’t wish to portray themselves as nazis, effectively surrendering the symbol to the nazis. If you want the concept and aesthetics of vikings to be surrendered to them, what other symbols do you want to surrender?
You make no efforts to clear up your stance to any of the above, so I’m still left speculating.
Why do you need to be told “no, I didn’t say the things you said. I said the things I said.” Whats that about?
Its funny that your point is that you claim to genuinely not be able to tell the difference between “a bit of all the above” (referring to some nazi overtones. So, a little bit of some) and “we have to surrender all the imagery the nazis claimed unto them.” If that’s really the hill you’re looking to die on here, then be my guest.
That one has basically no other associations in the western world and I’m not a hindu, so I don’t have a reason to. But pagan traditions, symbolism and mythology are a different matter. If you wish to label all of those as nazism, only the nazis will thank you for it.
Can you quote where I labelled them all the above as nazism please. You seem to have spent this entire conversation trying to put words in my mouth.
In fact, can you also quote where I said we need to throw out everything the nazis ever tried to claim while we’re here too please. I feel like you made that one up as well.
“All of the above” genius.
Your original response was “All of the above tbh.” to a list of critiques of the photoshoot. If you think that posing for a viking picture is too close to nazi symbolism, then why do you think that? I can’t see anything that would directly associate the picture with the german nazi party, or fascism in general.
The only explanation I could figure was that you think the nazi appropriation of the general aesthetic taints the whole concept of vikings with the nazi label. If my assesment is incorrect, then I do apologize. It’s just that that specific line of thinking is sadly somewhat common and is the core of a wider phenomenon of surrendering the symbols and aesthetics of many pre-christian traditions (particularly in northern Europe) to the nazis.
As I never said that nazis and viking were interchangeable terms, I’m going to to ahead and presume that means “no, I can’t quote where you said we have to discard every single thing the nazis claimed. However, rather than admitting that I made it up, I’m going to double down on the lie.” Good for you. Enjoy your cheap rhetorical devices, used for Internet points. My mistake for engaging someone like you in good faith. I’ve learned my lesson. Some people in Norway themselves also think its close to nazi symptoms. I said, it a little bit of a little too close. But hey, let’s not let what I actually said get in the way of things.
If you want to debate semantics, I’ll say that what’s there to admit? I never made any claims about what it is you’re saying, other than that one citation of your original response. The closest was when I said that “If you wish to label all of those as nazism, only the nazis will thank you for it.”. I didn’t claim that you do, but if you do, then only the nazis will thank you for it.
What I did do was take what I perceived to be the reasoning behind your comment (this picture of people posing as vikings is too close to nazi symbolism, so the concept and aesthetics of vikings is too close to nazi symbolism, presumably due to the far-rights attempts to appropriate said aesthetics) and apply it in a wider context in an attempt to demonstrate why I have my issues with it. If the vikings are too close to nazi symbolism, then what else is? You didn’t explain your reasoning, so I had to make some assumptions based on what I see around me in the world. We have plenty of neonazis here in Finland trying to appropriate ancient symbols for themselves, and we’re having similar discussions about that here every now and then. Countries (even smaller ones) aren’t hiveminds and you will find most opinions represented within them.
If you think that symbols shouldn’t be surrendered to the nazis, then why take issue with this image where the viking aesthetic is being used outside of fascistic ideology? It only serves to diminish that association. And the fact that you do take issue with this, means that you don’t want to see symbols which you consider to be too close to nazi symbolism to be used by those who don’t wish to portray themselves as nazis, effectively surrendering the symbol to the nazis. If you want the concept and aesthetics of vikings to be surrendered to them, what other symbols do you want to surrender?
You make no efforts to clear up your stance to any of the above, so I’m still left speculating.
Why do you need to be told “no, I didn’t say the things you said. I said the things I said.” Whats that about?
Its funny that your point is that you claim to genuinely not be able to tell the difference between “a bit of all the above” (referring to some nazi overtones. So, a little bit of some) and “we have to surrender all the imagery the nazis claimed unto them.” If that’s really the hill you’re looking to die on here, then be my guest.