• Noite_Etion@lemmy.world
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    21 hours ago

    That is a false equivalence.

    Antifascists mask up so they don’t get doxxed or targeted by fascists. Meanwhile, these guys are literally marching because they believe they are the “superior race.” If you genuinely think you’re a superior race but you’re still too terrified of the real world to show your face you’re just a pussy.

    • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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      20 hours ago

      Antifascists mask up so they don’t get doxxed or targeted by fascists.

      Nazis literally do the same thing, just the words “Antifascists” and “fascists”.

      Also the second talking point is thrown around by liberals, conservatives and in my country also some communists when people talk about masking up. I believe the act of masking up usually does not impact the idea one does stand for, so antifascists, activists and anarchists who mask up are just as legit as those that dont. And Nazis that dont wear mask are as shitty as those that wear a mask

      • Noite_Etion@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        So because both sides wear pants, we can’t criticise what’s in their pockets?

        It isn’t about the physical act of putting a mask on. It’s about the massive hypocrisy of marching around claiming you’re the ‘superior race’ while being too terrified of public opinion to show your face.

        We can absolutely call them pussies for that.

        • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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          16 hours ago

          Seems like we dont really come to any conclusion here, because I dont really see the hypocrisy in that. Like genuinely. Might be because I mask up for protests/actions I attend and I never feel hypocritic about that. Like I feel I still fully stand behind my opinions and ideals and thats why I have a real hard time imagining how that would apply to others.

          Besides, why use sexist language like pussy? In my experience its mostly used to shame people for not adhering to a toxic masculine ideal, which is something we should get past IMO

          • liuther9@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            You mask up when you fight almost unbeatable enemy (gov). You dont mask up when you fight normal dude, girl, little boy.

          • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            Besides, why use sexist language like pussy?

            it’s short for pusilanimous, not a body part reference.

              • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
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                15 hours ago

                that’s fair. i wouldn’t generally use it here, but if someone was mouthing off at me and i knew that they displayed misogynistic behavior in general, i might go for the short form just because i’m sure it would irritate said person more.

                fortunately, the last time someone wanted an argument in public i just blew kisses as i cruised away on my etrike. it’s my favorite way to defuse, like, anything.

        • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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          17 hours ago

          Nah, they don’t do the same things.

          Yes they dont do the same things.

          But I wrote: thing. Whitout “s”. So my comment was just focused on the act of masking up as a way to stop consequences of their action.

          Did I write my comment in a way that made it seem like I thought antifascists do the same thingS as nazis? Because if so, please tell me how I can improve my phrasing so that I dont get 10 angry antifascists in my replies that seem to think that is what I actually mean or communicate.

    • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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      21 hours ago

      That is a false equivalence.

      It’s not though… It’s weird to see how willing people are to twist logic and facts just because they hate somebody though. Like you are just bending over backwards to make the same action (masking) for the same reasons (to avoid personal backlash) seem justified on the one hand and not on the other.

      To be clear - these Nazis can and should die in a fire. But this isn’t a “false equivalence”.

      • Noite_Etion@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        It’s a false equivalence because context matters.

        Antifascists mask up because being doxxed by extremists can lead to actual physical harm or job loss just for opposing hate. These marchers mask up because they know promoting Nazi ideology carries social consequences. Protecting your safety from extremists is not the same as protecting your reputation because you are a racist.

        • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.net
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          16 hours ago

          Members of the group in the picture (patriotic front) just recently got doxxed which resulted in them losing jobs, atleast thats what the press reports. Which is good btw and I find it good.

          I am not saying this to make them look good or give them sympathy, but for them its also more then just social consequences and also a matter of safety. And yes its not in the same level as is for antifascists & anarchists, I know that.

        • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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          20 hours ago

          “Yes, you see the difference is that I agree with the motives of one side and not the other.”

          This is just special pleading.

            • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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              18 hours ago

              And you’ve given us an example of the left’s complete lack of critical thought so long as it advances your political arguments.

              • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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                16 hours ago

                Critical thinking acknowledges context that you’re deliberately discarding, so you’re being deliberately ignorant. Which means you’re here in bad faith.

                • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 hours ago

                  Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein a person claims an exception to a general or universal principle, but the exception is unjustified.

                  Start there. Learn.

                  • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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                    9 hours ago

                    Exception to what? What the fuck are you talking about? Are you replying to the wrong comment? Explain your dumb fuckin position or fuck off clown.

          • flandish@lemmy.world
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            18 hours ago

            the gov literally murders antifascist protestors and lets nazi ones get away clean.

            antifa masks because uncle sam will shoot them.

            nazis mask because they are uncle sam or don’t want the public punching them for being nazis. they are ashamed. until which point they feel safe enough to not mask and be full 1940 mode.

            this is why we must never tolerate nazis. they are not human.

      • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        Holy shit dude are you fuckin for real? You understand that context absolutely can make an action justified that would otherwise not be. What you’re saying is that self defense is just as bad as assault because they’re both violence. Which is, you know, real fuckin dumb.

        • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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          18 hours ago

          What you’re saying is that self defense is just as bad as assault because they’re both violence.

          No. I’m absolutely not saying that.

        • Nima@leminal.space
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          19 hours ago

          no, he is not right. one group is hiding because they are afraid of violent repercussions as the result of antifascist actions taken. their lives are at stake.

          one group is just cowardly and doesn’t want images of them as nazis to show their faces. but then still do nazi shit.

          massive difference. stop defending nazis rights to spew hatred from the shadows. if they want to be racist fuckwits, they can do it in the light.

          • Stiffneckedppl@lemmy.world
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            18 hours ago

            Lol, dude…no one is defending Nazis here. No one is defending what they say and do while they are masked. That’s an entirely different discussion that you’re trying to have.

            The question is about why these groups of people wear masks, and the answer is the same for both…to avoid backlash. Just because we see one group’s actions as socially justified and the other’s as unjustifiable (and rightly so) doesn’t change the fact that they have the same reasons for hiding their identities.

            I too, think it’s cowardly that these fascist groups hide behind masks. I too, think it’s unacceptable for LEOs to wear masks. And I have no qualms about those who fight back against them wearing masks to protect themselves. That’s the context you’re looking for, but not what was being discussed here.

            It’s the difference between asking:

            1. Why do these groups of people hide their identites?

            vs

            1. is it acceptable for these groups of people to hide their identites?
            • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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              16 hours ago

              That’s reductive to the point of being disingenuous, never mind adding nothing the conversation. Are you a contrarian by nature or are you just deliberately trying to muddy the waters here, or what’s your agenda?

        • edible_funk@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          No he’s not, that’s a stupid ass take that disregards context and nuance. You really trying to argue self defense and assaulting minorities are totally equivalent because they’re both violence? That’s fucking stupid to an impressive degree.