I’m very curious how this will be handled by OEM’s.
Water resistance is pretty much universal at this point, and as far as I know that’s dependent on an airtight seal being maintained throughout the device.
The EU rule forbids use of tools, chemicals or heat to remove the battery. So how does Apple, Google etc retain the IP68 rating if the back is removable via screws?
I obviously think this is a really great step for mobile phones; I miss being able to carry a second battery for long trips back in the day. But I’m concerned that this will also make phones bulkier, heavier and less water resistant.
The Galaxy S5 was water resistant and had a replaceable battery. The main reason they stopped was that Apple was doing glass/metal phones without replaceable anything that still sold like pancakes, so Samsung moved to glass-back phones with the S6 and the rest of the OEMs eventually followed suit.
That is what gaskets are designed to do. Admittedly I haven’t read the regulations, but they could even go as far as making the gasket “single use”. Meaning the battery is user replaceable, but not meant to be constantly swapped. Removing the back cover could require replacing the gasket and using a specific torque value and sequence on the screws the same way you would on any other gasket interface meant to keep dust and liquids in or out.
They could also potentially start waterproofing the circuit boards themselves with conformal coating the way they do with mission critical hardware that needs to still function even if there is some amount of water ingress. I’m not saying I’d be happy with that solution, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did.
That was my first thought as well. Granted phones these days are mostly batteries with as small a circuit board as they can get away with shoved in the remaining space
I like the idea, and I suspect gaskets will be the solution they go with, with the back cover applying pressure to the gasket to create a seal. but the EU regulation specifically says that no expertise should be required and you should be able to do it with commercial, standard tools (i.e screwdriver). I don’t think they could make single-use gaskets where you have to purchase additional gaskets from the OEM. I suppose they could come with the battery itself, which the EU requires OEMs to sell for 5 years.
Requiring specific torque values are certainly violating the regulation as that would either require specialised tools are expertise that can’t be expected from regular customers.
It also is not necessary for securing water and dust protection. Single use seals are fine as the focus is repair, not battery capacity extension vua battery swap.
Do we know know if requiring specific torque values would violate the regulation? That’s a genuine good faith question. The reason I ask, and what I was thinking of when I made my original comment was cars, and not the new bull shit we have. If I reference the shop manual for any of the vehicles I owned made in the late 80s to early 90s every fastener had a specific torque value specified for their installation from a lug but, to a cable management clip, to a head gasket bolt. Only one of those items I listed ever had a torque wrench brought out to be installed if they were worked on though by a mechanic or an owner.
I’m just wondering if it might be a similar situation.
I don’t know the legislation word by word but I do know it requires that the repair is possible without specialised equipment. How should a simple consumer without special tools apply a precise torque.
Changing a phone battery should be simpler than repairing a car and the regulation also requires it to be simpler.
Well, that’s kinda what I’m getting at. The kind of tool used by a mechanic to install a cable management clip (that the shop manual states has a torque value) is a simple screw driver. I think I have seen seen some computer heatsinks that have listed a recommended torque value as well. Of course I have never grabbed my torque wrench for this either, I have always just gone with feel.
To be clear, I’m not advocating that the manufacturer require users to buy a torque gauge of some kind and get away with it. It can be very helpful though to have a recommended torque value and sequence as a reference point though if they go the route of screws and gaskets. There are tons of other engineering solutions that are possible up to and including just not having an IP rating.
I’m currently using a Fairphone 5 with the back cover removed and in a case and I haven’t ever had any issues.
There are two possibilities. Either the right torque is critical for successful repair. In which case skill is required with simple equipment that cannot be expected from a simple consumer, or the torque has such a high tolerance that the error margin is what a regular screw driver use would comply with, and therefore no torque has to be specified in the repair manual, other than maybe qualitative statements.
Not sure, is the battery waterproof? If I drop my phone in a sink of water, and it’s IP68 rated, would this mean I need to replace my battery immediately?
I imagine they’ll lose the water resistance but in terms of bulkiness, idk, my last phone had a replaceable battery that required no tools and it was smaller and lighter than my current phone. I don’t think that’ll be a big deal.
I think it might have worked better if the requirement is for every phone to have an OPTION for a replaceable battery. I.E. manufacturers can provide a “waterproof” or “slim” or whatever version of each model, without a replaceable battery, so long as there’s a version with a replaceable battery as well. With equivalent availability.
I don’t like the idea personally, because the replaceable battery version would be priced up, and likely not given the flagship experience. The point of this law is to prevent ewaste from 2 year old batteries performing badly, and standardising replaceable batteries is the way to stop that. OEMs would just find ways to convince users to buy the phones with no replaceable batteries because they make more money long-term that way. I don’t trust corporations lol.
I’m very curious how this will be handled by OEM’s.
Water resistance is pretty much universal at this point, and as far as I know that’s dependent on an airtight seal being maintained throughout the device.
The EU rule forbids use of tools, chemicals or heat to remove the battery. So how does Apple, Google etc retain the IP68 rating if the back is removable via screws?
I obviously think this is a really great step for mobile phones; I miss being able to carry a second battery for long trips back in the day. But I’m concerned that this will also make phones bulkier, heavier and less water resistant.
The Galaxy S5 was water resistant and had a replaceable battery. The main reason they stopped was that Apple was doing glass/metal phones without replaceable anything that still sold like pancakes, so Samsung moved to glass-back phones with the S6 and the rest of the OEMs eventually followed suit.
That is what gaskets are designed to do. Admittedly I haven’t read the regulations, but they could even go as far as making the gasket “single use”. Meaning the battery is user replaceable, but not meant to be constantly swapped. Removing the back cover could require replacing the gasket and using a specific torque value and sequence on the screws the same way you would on any other gasket interface meant to keep dust and liquids in or out.
They could also potentially start waterproofing the circuit boards themselves with conformal coating the way they do with mission critical hardware that needs to still function even if there is some amount of water ingress. I’m not saying I’d be happy with that solution, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did.
What would also work is waterproofing the phone except of the battery case and use a waterproof connector between the battery and the phone.
That was my first thought as well. Granted phones these days are mostly batteries with as small a circuit board as they can get away with shoved in the remaining space
Which would make it pretty simple to just make this small area waterproof.
So what your saying is I could have a water cooled phone just like a pc
I like the idea, and I suspect gaskets will be the solution they go with, with the back cover applying pressure to the gasket to create a seal. but the EU regulation specifically says that no expertise should be required and you should be able to do it with commercial, standard tools (i.e screwdriver). I don’t think they could make single-use gaskets where you have to purchase additional gaskets from the OEM. I suppose they could come with the battery itself, which the EU requires OEMs to sell for 5 years.
Requiring specific torque values are certainly violating the regulation as that would either require specialised tools are expertise that can’t be expected from regular customers. It also is not necessary for securing water and dust protection. Single use seals are fine as the focus is repair, not battery capacity extension vua battery swap.
Do we know know if requiring specific torque values would violate the regulation? That’s a genuine good faith question. The reason I ask, and what I was thinking of when I made my original comment was cars, and not the new bull shit we have. If I reference the shop manual for any of the vehicles I owned made in the late 80s to early 90s every fastener had a specific torque value specified for their installation from a lug but, to a cable management clip, to a head gasket bolt. Only one of those items I listed ever had a torque wrench brought out to be installed if they were worked on though by a mechanic or an owner.
I’m just wondering if it might be a similar situation.
I don’t know the legislation word by word but I do know it requires that the repair is possible without specialised equipment. How should a simple consumer without special tools apply a precise torque.
Changing a phone battery should be simpler than repairing a car and the regulation also requires it to be simpler.
Well, that’s kinda what I’m getting at. The kind of tool used by a mechanic to install a cable management clip (that the shop manual states has a torque value) is a simple screw driver. I think I have seen seen some computer heatsinks that have listed a recommended torque value as well. Of course I have never grabbed my torque wrench for this either, I have always just gone with feel.
To be clear, I’m not advocating that the manufacturer require users to buy a torque gauge of some kind and get away with it. It can be very helpful though to have a recommended torque value and sequence as a reference point though if they go the route of screws and gaskets. There are tons of other engineering solutions that are possible up to and including just not having an IP rating.
I’m currently using a Fairphone 5 with the back cover removed and in a case and I haven’t ever had any issues.
There are two possibilities. Either the right torque is critical for successful repair. In which case skill is required with simple equipment that cannot be expected from a simple consumer, or the torque has such a high tolerance that the error margin is what a regular screw driver use would comply with, and therefore no torque has to be specified in the repair manual, other than maybe qualitative statements.
Riiiiiiight
Could they potentially leave the innards of the device water proof while the battery itself is not sealed?
Not sure, is the battery waterproof? If I drop my phone in a sink of water, and it’s IP68 rated, would this mean I need to replace my battery immediately?
It’s not hard to make a waterproof battery and a waterproof phone. All you need to waterproof using gaskets is the connector between both of them.
I imagine they’ll lose the water resistance but in terms of bulkiness, idk, my last phone had a replaceable battery that required no tools and it was smaller and lighter than my current phone. I don’t think that’ll be a big deal.
I think it might have worked better if the requirement is for every phone to have an OPTION for a replaceable battery. I.E. manufacturers can provide a “waterproof” or “slim” or whatever version of each model, without a replaceable battery, so long as there’s a version with a replaceable battery as well. With equivalent availability.
I don’t like the idea personally, because the replaceable battery version would be priced up, and likely not given the flagship experience. The point of this law is to prevent ewaste from 2 year old batteries performing badly, and standardising replaceable batteries is the way to stop that. OEMs would just find ways to convince users to buy the phones with no replaceable batteries because they make more money long-term that way. I don’t trust corporations lol.