To be fair, their total screen time was what? 10 minutes? Out of a 3 hour movie? And half of that was them being killed and the other half was playing a shade/ghost whose only purpose was to admonish Odysseus for letting them be killed? Sure, the character of Sinon had more significance to the story (or at least, to Odysseus specifically), but that part of their story was played by a literal 13 year old (Mason Cufari according to IMDb). Have I seen stronger roles from Elliot before? Oh for sure, but this role wasn’t supposed to be the creme de la creme. For a purely supporting role, I for one thought they were perfectly suitable.
P.S. Sinon doesn’t even appear in the original myth AT ALL, regardless of translation. He was borrowed from Virgil’s The Aeneid which has its own set of goals, themes, and biases
I like how a lot of the Oddessy as we currently view it is a mixed bag of all kinds of stories. Gilgamesh will be similar in that regard, I have no doubt.
Still, being a side character with less then great type of ‘place’ in the story doesn’t have to mean anything for a performance, right? I thought it was a weak performance . I guess we disagree about that. I’ve seen better from Page in multiple other movies. Also didn’t help that a lot of the main cast was delivering fiery hot performances, it increases the contrast. As I said, sometimes you miss. Atlas shrugged.
I agree with everything you said right up until you pulled in Ayn Rand at the very end (yes I know she didn’t invent the phrase but boy do I hate her with a burning passion). Still upvoted you for providing a reasonable discussion instead of just diving into personal attacks or other bad faith arguments like some others here on the Internet. Much appreciated
I didn’t do so intentionally. Honestly I just find it easier to use they/them for the majority of people anyway, especially with the increase in anonymous identities since the rise of the internet.
1-Yes I do. I’m an overthinker who usually wastes way too much time, effort, and energy on thinking about which EXACT words I want to use in a given situation and at some point I just decided that using they/them works perfectly well most of the time
2-For example, I never said “always”, I said “the majority of people” which is just anything more than precisely 50%.
3-If I’m being real picky, the MOST commonly used pronoun I say is probably the variations of “you”. If I were to apply it to this situation I might tell you “Gee, someone must have pissed in your cereal this morning”. But if I was describing this interaction to a friend I would tell them “This one person was really pissing me off, someone must have pissed in their cereal this morning.” I don’t know you or how you identify or what pronouns you prefer but it is still perfectly valid English grammar. See how that works?
4-Stop white knighting for people who are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves, at least not over stupid shit like this. It will never make them more accepted by bigots (your ACTUAL opponent). In fact, it only makes their acceptance by the rest of society that much harder if they feel like they have to walk on eggshells every time they try to have a conversation. If you see something truly, unmistakably transphobic, go right ahead, I won’t stop you from trying to stamp that shit out. But trying to gatekeep people who ‘aren’t the right kind of Ally’ will earn you no friends, not even from the community you think you’re helping
You call it “stupid shit.” But you’re in a comment section. At the very top of your screen in big text is a headline referring to Elliot Page as he. You read that and still called him “they.” And you’re bullshitting about primarily using “they” for people. On your own profile, just on the first two of comments, you had no problem correctly gendering:
Sinon (Elliot Page’s character.)
Donald Trump
Mitch McConnell
Ayn Rand
Tony Robbins
Hasan Piker
The people you refer to as “they”:
Groups of people like “the cops.”
Unknown individuals
Elliot Page
From the first two pages of comments on your account, you primarily use they to refer to groups of people or unknown individuals. I only went through the first two pages, but from that sample, the only specific known individual you referred to as “they” was Elliot Page. You even managed to gender his character correctly. His character is a he. He gets demoted to a they.
It’s easy to dismiss the concerns of a minority group. But degendering is a well-known phenomenon. Even many people who consider themselves allies engage in it. Go to any story involving a trans person, and you will find numerous people referring the person as “they,” even if their pronouns are prominently featured in the story. And this pattern only happens with stories involving trans individuals.
Many allies are performative allies only. They don’t actually see trans identities as fundamentally legitimate. They don’t actually see a trans woman as a woman or a trans man as a man, but they still want the brownie points of being “an ally.” They won’t say overtly transphobic things, but they’ll engage in micro-aggressions like degendering trans people. Every trans person has experienced firsthand how the number of people that refer to them as “they” increases exponentially after they come out, even if they have a clearly stated binary gender identity.
This has the same vibe as white folks who feel they can’t be racist as long as they’re not engaging in overt racial prejudice.
I thought his performance in the Oddessy was one of the weakest I ever saw from Page, so that won’t help. Oh well, can’t win m all.
To be fair, their total screen time was what? 10 minutes? Out of a 3 hour movie? And half of that was them being killed and the other half was playing a shade/ghost whose only purpose was to admonish Odysseus for letting them be killed? Sure, the character of Sinon had more significance to the story (or at least, to Odysseus specifically), but that part of their story was played by a literal 13 year old (Mason Cufari according to IMDb). Have I seen stronger roles from Elliot before? Oh for sure, but this role wasn’t supposed to be the creme de la creme. For a purely supporting role, I for one thought they were perfectly suitable.
P.S. Sinon doesn’t even appear in the original myth AT ALL, regardless of translation. He was borrowed from Virgil’s The Aeneid which has its own set of goals, themes, and biases
I like how a lot of the Oddessy as we currently view it is a mixed bag of all kinds of stories. Gilgamesh will be similar in that regard, I have no doubt.
Still, being a side character with less then great type of ‘place’ in the story doesn’t have to mean anything for a performance, right? I thought it was a weak performance . I guess we disagree about that. I’ve seen better from Page in multiple other movies. Also didn’t help that a lot of the main cast was delivering fiery hot performances, it increases the contrast. As I said, sometimes you miss. Atlas shrugged.
I agree with everything you said right up until you pulled in Ayn Rand at the very end (yes I know she didn’t invent the phrase but boy do I hate her with a burning passion). Still upvoted you for providing a reasonable discussion instead of just diving into personal attacks or other bad faith arguments like some others here on the Internet. Much appreciated
More screen time wouldn’t have helped that performance.
Why did you degender him?
They they they them. We’re talking about a binary trans man here.
I didn’t do so intentionally. Honestly I just find it easier to use they/them for the majority of people anyway, especially with the increase in anonymous identities since the rise of the internet.
You sure you do that? The majority of people who say they “always use they” only happen to do so when a trans person is involved.
1-Yes I do. I’m an overthinker who usually wastes way too much time, effort, and energy on thinking about which EXACT words I want to use in a given situation and at some point I just decided that using they/them works perfectly well most of the time
2-For example, I never said “always”, I said “the majority of people” which is just anything more than precisely 50%.
3-If I’m being real picky, the MOST commonly used pronoun I say is probably the variations of “you”. If I were to apply it to this situation I might tell you “Gee, someone must have pissed in your cereal this morning”. But if I was describing this interaction to a friend I would tell them “This one person was really pissing me off, someone must have pissed in their cereal this morning.” I don’t know you or how you identify or what pronouns you prefer but it is still perfectly valid English grammar. See how that works?
4-Stop white knighting for people who are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves, at least not over stupid shit like this. It will never make them more accepted by bigots (your ACTUAL opponent). In fact, it only makes their acceptance by the rest of society that much harder if they feel like they have to walk on eggshells every time they try to have a conversation. If you see something truly, unmistakably transphobic, go right ahead, I won’t stop you from trying to stamp that shit out. But trying to gatekeep people who ‘aren’t the right kind of Ally’ will earn you no friends, not even from the community you think you’re helping
You call it “stupid shit.” But you’re in a comment section. At the very top of your screen in big text is a headline referring to Elliot Page as he. You read that and still called him “they.” And you’re bullshitting about primarily using “they” for people. On your own profile, just on the first two of comments, you had no problem correctly gendering:
The people you refer to as “they”:
From the first two pages of comments on your account, you primarily use they to refer to groups of people or unknown individuals. I only went through the first two pages, but from that sample, the only specific known individual you referred to as “they” was Elliot Page. You even managed to gender his character correctly. His character is a he. He gets demoted to a they.
It’s easy to dismiss the concerns of a minority group. But degendering is a well-known phenomenon. Even many people who consider themselves allies engage in it. Go to any story involving a trans person, and you will find numerous people referring the person as “they,” even if their pronouns are prominently featured in the story. And this pattern only happens with stories involving trans individuals.
Many allies are performative allies only. They don’t actually see trans identities as fundamentally legitimate. They don’t actually see a trans woman as a woman or a trans man as a man, but they still want the brownie points of being “an ally.” They won’t say overtly transphobic things, but they’ll engage in micro-aggressions like degendering trans people. Every trans person has experienced firsthand how the number of people that refer to them as “they” increases exponentially after they come out, even if they have a clearly stated binary gender identity.
This has the same vibe as white folks who feel they can’t be racist as long as they’re not engaging in overt racial prejudice.
He also uses they/them, per his coming out X post.
don’t try and chase that goalpost.