Was wondering what people think about the label “lesbian” and what it means, and who should or shouldn’t use it.

There was someone on Bluesky who was upset when they learned I sometimes identify as a lesbian because I’m a woman in a long term relationship with a woman, even though I’m technically bisexual. (I’ve only ever dated women, would only ever want to date women.)

They said I was appropriating the label “lesbian”, that I was lesbophobic, and that I was communicating that it’s shameful to be bisexual. (For clarity, I don’t hide that I’m bi, I will identify that way in some contexts, and in others I will identify as a lesbian - usually I identify as lesbian around straight people, and among LGBT+ folks I’m more likely to identify as bi or communicate more about my sexuality; tbh it doesn’t come up much, and my sexual orientation not a big part of how I like to identify).

I tend to think a label like “lesbian” communicates a sexual or romantic relationship between two women, so I’m surprised to interact with someone who was so rigid about the label that it cannot apply to someone who is even capable of opposite-sex attraction …

I’m not sure I would ever date a man, so sometimes “lesbian” or “sapphic” are labels that feel more accurate to who I am than a term like bisexual, which implies more openness than I actually have. It’s also irrelevant for me since I’m in a long-term monogamous relationship with a woman, from the perspective of others in my life, I have been and will continue to be a lesbian …

I just wonder where the rigidity comes from, and why the person thought I was lesbophobic. I wasn’t able to ask her or learn about her perspective, so I was hoping someone would help me understand wtf just happened, lol

  • Nat (she/they)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 day ago

    I’m theoretically bi but practically lesbian, I prefer to say lesbian because it communicates an idea closer to the truth. I’m sure people could say I’m technically not lesbian or technically not bi, and to those people I ask wtf they think the purpose of words are.

    I’d say it’s fine and that people should expect such a simple term to not fully capture people.

  • Jul (they/she)@piefed.blahaj.zone
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    2 days ago

    The term is outdated, IMHO, anyway, and has been misappropriated by TERFs these days. Outdated because it assumes strict binary genders on both sides. I don’t usually date men, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t sometimes some attraction, but consider myself agender, so neither lesbian, gay, nor straight can possibly apply to me without a starting gender, and I don’t discriminate against trans people and the terms totally exclude other non-binary people who could be my partners. So, polysexual is a good term that I’ve found useful at times, but generally I just don’t bother using any of that terminology. Every decision about my attraction and desire to date someone is specific to that person, not defined by their gender necessarily. So, I use pansexual if forced because it doesn’t limit anything up front. But, I don’t usually have much desire to advertise my sexuality anymore because the terminology is just so imprecise anyway.

  • erotador@lemmy.blahaj.zoneM
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    6 days ago

    the terms we use to describe ourselves are exactly that, descriptive, not prescriptive. nobody gets to tell you your gender, your orientation, your identity but you. you are the only person who gets to tell others who you are, and if other people disagree with you then thats their problem not yours.

    queerness is such a unique and personal experience that no two people will experience it the same way, and it helps to communicate some basics, but nobody is ever the perfect picturesque shining example of lesbian, or gay, or straight, or whatever. some people want rigid definitions for words, and sure there are plenty of times when that kind of thinking can be helpful. but people are so much more complex than labels.

    besides most of these labels and such were created long ago and have changed in meaning so much, our understanding of sexuality is so much more broad than they were even 20 years ago, and i think that we need to keep pushing those boundaries and explore what it truly means to be queer. go do controversial things, inspire others to be themselves, dont take shit from anybody, own it girl <3

  • dumples@midwest.social
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    5 days ago

    I like to use Dan Savage’s cake metaphor for sexual identity:
    The bottom layer: who you wanna do.
    The middle layer: who you are doing.
    The top layer: what you tell people, aka how you self-identify straight, gay, lesbian, bi, asexual, etc.

    The more neatly aligned your layers, the less messy your cake.

    So if you are bisexual but only want to date women and are only dating a woman and identify as lesbian that seems to fit. With bisexuality there isn’t a unified “bisexual” culture like there is for lesbian or straight culture. So bisexuals can end up being part of lesbian or straight culture.

  • Sounds like you encountered an idiot. I identify as a lesbian. The fact that I have dated a man and that I have occassionally gotten sexy with men in group situations does not change this. Orientation labels are shorthand- something that saves time in communication with folks. It’s not meant to be an unyielding, eternal truth with no exceptions ever. If you say you’re a lesbian (in good faith), then you’re a lesbian, end of story.

  • Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    I know a guy who is in a long term relationship with a woman, but still reffers to himself as gay. He’s really into guys but also this one woman. Labels are dumb.

  • faythofdragons@slrpnk.net
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    6 days ago

    I think that there will be people who dislike whatever label you choose for yourself. I’m bisexual, agender, with she/her pronouns, and people love to tell me I’m wrong about my labels.

    I’ve heard that I shouldn’t call myself bi because its transphobic, people say that being AFAB and calling myself agender is anti-feminist, I’ve been told that she/her pronouns are for women only and I’m actually a confused trans man, that agender doesn’t exist, I’ve heard that I shouldn’t call myself a tomboy because its misogynistic, that I shouldn’t draw a line between romantic orientation and sexual orienation because I’m being a tryhard, etc etc.

    You pick what label feels right to you, not the other way around.

  • Lux (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    6 days ago

    Words mean what we use them to mean.

    “Lesbian” and “Saphic” both come from Sapho of Lesbos, who wrote a lot of poetry involving woman-man and woman-woman relationships. Under modern definitions, most people would likely call her bisexual.

    Lesbian is typically used to describe woman-woman relationships/orientations, but, with historical context, doesn’t really align with exclusively woman-woman relationships/orientations.

    If you follow the strict, modern definition, Sapho of Lesbos would not be lesbian.

    There are also different orientations that could be described as lesbian. The main orientations that seem relevant in this case are romantic lesbian and sexual lesbian.

    Based on your post, it sounds like you are romantically a lesbian, but probably sexually bi. (You don’t have to identify this way, that’s all up to you, and I don’t know you well enough to say this with any confidence).

    In short, words don’t have inherent meaning. Call yourself what you’re comfortable with.

  • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    Short answer: nobody can stop you but some people will be mad at you.

    Their arguments are basically all identical to what you described here, that there can and should be a word to clearly describe women who are exclusively attracted to women and that the word for that is and should remain “lesbian”. Some folks derogatorily refer to that as prescriptivism, proponents counter that it’s just using correct definitions for existing words. I’m inclined to agree with the latter but I’m not invested enough to get upset about it either way, if it works for you as a self-descriptor then follow your bliss.

    • dandelion (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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      6 days ago

      hm, I wonder if the same thing happens with the gay male community - are gay men upset that some bisexual men who are in relationships with men and exclusively date men identify as gay?

      I get the desire to have a word that designates homosexual women, I don’t really want to infringe on that - but with straight people I’m not sure there is a perfect word to quickly communicate that I’m in a relationship with a woman and wouldn’t date men … bi implies I would date men, and “sapphic” is not a term most straight people seem to know, so it’s not as useful in those particular contexts. And among queer elements I’m more likely to communicate I’m bi because queer folks are more likely to understand nuance with sexual orientation …

      • djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        6 days ago

        As a bi femboy I did face similar criticisms when I was in a long term relationship with a guy. Similar to you, I frequently would describe myself as gay to strangers and cis people, but would go into more detail when hanging with other queers. A lot of the criticism was regarding stuff like bi erasure, but I occasionally even got some flack from my then partner as though I was appropriating culture. I think the big difference between us is that now that I’m single again, I describe myself exclusively as bi; I am attracted to women and would be happy dating one.

        I think kinda going into your second point, there’s a question of whether we should be describing our sexuality, or our relationship. Saying “I’m gay” immediately let people know my partner was a man. It was a lot more descriptive of my relationship status, even if it wasn’t descriptive of my sexuality.

      • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        I would expect similar but I’ve encountered none regarding gay male self-identification, could just be a sample bias isssue since I’m more likely to engage with transfem content